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Does the VIDE compatability now mean that it is possible to work on a GSBASIC program without a Vectrex?

My name is Jason. I have a background in filmmaking, animation, art, drawing and painting. I do a lot of dabbling and I haven't settled on my medium yet. Game design is a serious interest of mine.

I discovered vector graphics, Vectrex and homebrew video games all around the same time, in 2012. I've been obsessed ever since. I follow new developments for the NES and Atari 2600, but I especially keep up with the Vectrex scene.

Discovering these scenes and participating in them is something I have always taken as a creative endeavor. I haven't really delved into programming yet, and I'm not sure that will ever be a practical course for me. But I have made some overlay prototypes and I have extensively prototyped an original Vectrex game using clips of animation I made with the Lightpen.

I don't know any BASIC and I haven't bought a Vectrex32 SmartCart yet. My main object will be to test other people's programs and to be able to play whatever new stuff people come up with. So I'm kind of waiting for others to make some progress before I buy in. With the small number of units initially available I thought it made sense for those to end up in the hands of programmers and for me to wait.

Thanks for the suggestion Vectronic. I actually do have a copy of Vectrex LOGO, (I guess it is "Lite" if it is a green slim cart?). I had thought of that and recently searched images and videos of LOGO drawings. I haven't ever actually messed around with this LOGO cart and only vaguely remember taking a LOGO class when I was a child. But as I remember, the drawings tend to be overtly geometric and typically symetrical and I don't remember making animations. .. Of course LOGO uses the paradigm of a turtle for a good reason. I think it is more intended to teach programing in a visual way rather than actually designing graphics?

.. I was thinking more about this recently, making graphics and animations on Vectrex with Vextrex32. I guess a "game" or program for casual users is unlikely to ever happen. I think the ones that already exist hardly get used and I am in the minority even being interested in them.

But something kind of inbetween - minimal code to execute graphics display, in which the graphics information (coordinates of drawing vertices, number and sequence of frames..) may be edited in the program on the PC, and executed on Vectrex - this might be practical.

There was something similar, (but not animated) made by Vectorzoa, I think called VecDraw. It was an assembly template with a sample drawing, packaged with the files necessary to compile a playable Vectrex BIN. He gave instruction for making your own vector object, by drawing it on graph paper and then translating it into a series of coordinates oriented and identified the way Vectrex expects them. Then you could edit the drawing coordinates in the assembly template and recompile the BIN. Now you see your own graphics on Vectrex! .. I messed around with this VecDraw tool in the past and it was pretty sweet.

Cool. I'd call that a YES, if the hardware is already there for it.

I've played around with Art Master and Animaction quite a bit and had a lot of fun making some pretty cool animations. I love these programs and they are serviceable, but they are also both extremely limiting and tedious to use. .. So I'm just throwing the idea out there for a new Vectrex animation "game", if there is anyone else maybe interested in this and qualified to program such software.

This isn't necessarily Vectrex32 exclusive, but I suppose this new hardware might open up some possibilities and perhaps this type of program would be easier to get off the ground than a game, (no AI, no level design, few creative choices, less burden to fine tune mechanics and difficulty etc.).

I'm prepared to break down and list what is useful and what is lacking in ArtMaster/Animaction, the differences between the two etc, in great detail. But unless (until?) there is more interest, I will summarize only the most glaring shortcomings:

- Both games rely entirely on lightpen input for all drawing tasks. This is EXCRUCIATING for detailed work. It would be very very useful to be able to manually plot coordinates. .. Even if there was just a way to increase/decrease x and y postions one unit at a time using button presses on the controller, this would be a great upgrade.

- The two games use two different methods of animation, but both of them require that every frame of the movie contains all of the vectors/sprites. This means that neither game can do traditional frame by frame animation, (in which the illusion of motion is created by a series of unique static drawings). .. Traditional frame by frame character animation IS relevant to Vectrex and it is how many of the most animation intensive games are drawn, (War of the Worlds, I,Cyborg..).

- The length of movies is pretty limited, especially with maximum vectors on Art Master.

- Inability to save in either game.

xxxxxx

I'm not sure many gamers share my interest in consumer animation "edu-games", or if there would be much audience for this 

.. It might be cool instead, (more practical, maybe even useful) to have a PC software that enabled animation made on the computer to then be output to Vectrex, (without the user having to actually learn a programming language). But I suppose that would eliminate the option of also using the lightpen.

Would the cartridge hardware enable game programs to SAVE game data, (games in progress, high scores etc.) without interfacing with a PC while playing the game?

I like McFly's idea and the SNES analogy is identical to what I was talking about with a non-interfacing vec32 cart permanently devoted to only one game. .. I thought that maybe such a "game distribution Vectrex32 version" might be more cheaply produced than the current version, (which you could consider the "developer version"). But Bob indicated that that really wouldn't be the case.

I started the thread on copy protection. I'm not a developer. Obviously the preference of copy protection is the prerogative of the author or owner of the software.

My actual concern was that the really amazing game programs might not be written because there is no physical media to exchange. Physical media is of course an antiquated concept. But so too are wired controllers, monochrome xy crt's and video games that don't connect to the internet. "CARTRIDGE RELEASE" is generally the threshold for full fledged, high quality, complete and finished homebrew games. .. Maybe that doesn't have to be the case, but I think a complete absence of distribution scructure will inhibit production. There may tend to be lots of experiments and test programs but few or no finished productions.

It's not really for me to be concerned about and I don't expect a decisive solution. But it is a relevant topic.

Having an emulator that runs original ROMS sounds also like a good idea, but this would be a lot of effort and FAIK there aren't too many ROMs that use the Vector graphics (correct me, if I'm wrong). And aren't the ROMs still copyrighted?

There are enough vector games and the legality is tenable enough to have previously justified the creation of VectorMame and the Zektor hardware, pretty much for the exclusive purpose of playing these games, (not really even arguably for development like emulators of NES, Atari etc):

http://www.zektor.com/zvg/zvg_vpix.htm

ROMs wouldn't be distributed by the author of the emulator. Most of them probably are copyrighted. .. I think most of the suggestions you gave for Vectrex32 ports/clones are also copyrighted and many previous Vectrex homebrews also are, and some certainly done witout explicit permission. .. In practice I think it mostly boils down to what the copyright owners are motivated to prosecute. Star Wars and Mario properties are still often actively protected. Princess Rescue for the 2600 was taken out of production for this reason I think. But Zippy, (Sonic the Hedgehog clone) seems to have been deliberately uncontested by Sega. Probably some developers consider it really cool to see their old properties live again among small fan communities like this.

Personally I would rather see a really inspired complete original game if someone is going to program a game from scratch. .. If someone is going to do a game conversion I'd prefer it to be a new take, like Marine Fox or Juno First (2600) or a game that is really obscure (War of the Worlds), rather than straight versions of Battlezone or Tempest.

Bob, you are correct about what type of emulator I was referring to - a GSBASIC program capable of emulating vector arcade systems and software on the Vectrex32/Vectrex hardware.

Vectronic is talking about something different for sure, emulating the Vectrex32 on a PC, for the purpose of prototyping and testing GSBASIC programs, (without Vectrex32 hardware).

Yes I pretty much have the same idea as you, Vectronic.

I guess I break it down into two issues though. There is the obvious issue of protecting copyrights, which I think we've already discussed an adequate solution to. But the other issue to me is the material token of completion. Certainly part of the excitement of homebrew video games is the experience of acquiring a new game that looks just like a game from 30 years ago. It is amazing that you can purchase a new Vectrex, NES or Atari cartridge in 2016!

I don't believe this is exclusively a function of "collecting". I think rather it is also ultimate gratification for the author of the game: product in hand. It is gratifying to me too, as the end user - REGARDLESS OF COST OR VALUE. It is part of the cult of the whole thing.

In a way this might all be contrary to the open concept of this device and the idea of a revolutionary new platform and community. (i.e. both copyright protection and physical media might be viewed as counter-revolutionary).

Well I definitely don't mean to change the course or cause the redesign of this brand new hardware. I only wanted to get the idea out there, if it might positively influence future developments. .. It will be a more interesting discussion after some people start programming for it.

I wonder if this will appeal to the established (assembly) programmers, or if it will be more of a new class of programmers?

I guess the game authors could just put a password registration system in their game programs, without requiring a revision to the platform.

I'm not currently a programmer or having a problem of my own about this issue. I'm just trying to imagine and troubleshoot the prospects for a great new game. It seems like most, if not all, really polished and complete Vectrex games have been produced with the goal of a dedicated physical release, even when they have also been released as free binaries.

I understood that the Vectrex32 SmartCart is a powerful platform with quality components and priced accordingly. I only imagined that a more limited read-only version might be possible in order to publish a game in physical form, that some components could be eliminated or reduced in this version to reduce cost, to the point where it might be reasonable for an entire processor-on-cart unit to be manufactured for the permanent function of playing only one game. .. For some reference of what the market has been, Vectrex homebrew games may cost around $70 and sell 150 or more copies at this price. A really robust game with unique cartridge hardware could probably justify a higher price than this.

.. Or maybe, if it ever came to that where someone made such a game and had such a concern, the more expensive components could be repackaged as a console add-on that accepted other removeable physical media.

Vectrex "homebrew" programmers have varied in how they choose to release their new game programs. The availability of Vectrex flash cartridges enables games to be released electronically and instantaneously, often for free. But some developers prefer to release the games on dedicated cartridges, often with electronic edition signitures unique to each cartridge ROM. They sell these game cartridges and they restrict the use of the software to those who have purchased cartridges.

Is there a method for protecting software made for the Vectrex32 hardware?

Could a non-interfacing game-dedicated Vectrex32 cartridge be made more cost effectively than the current development cartridge, for the sake of publishing a commercial game in physical form?

The "commercial" aspect is quite thin in terms of actual profit, but I think for many programmers who choose to fully develop a robust game, the official and physical release and distribution is really essential to justifying the effort; achieving the childhood dream of making a video game..

It may take a long time for a new game that takes full advantage of this system to come out. Could a vector arcade emulator be written for the Vectrex32 more quickly in the meantime? If that software could be made and distributed it would surely help popularize the new hardware and create a bigger community.

I also wonder if a different kind of emulator could be made to run existing non-3D Vectrex games in 3D and in color, with the 3D Imager!!!! ... Or maybe this would have to be game hacks on an individual basis.

Just some thoughts for getting engaging software off the ground more quickly. But these emulators would be great to have whether they came quickly or not.